jutt

TALK
between Bohdana Korohod, Daria Khrystych and Tanel Rander next to Rakvere Theatre, at the edge of the park

Tanel: I wanted to ask how you selected your characters and why you selected those three? (Care, Not Belonging/Belonging, Stillness)

Bohdana: We were asked this question 2 hours ago. These characters are, first of all, emotional states. And these emotional states kind of came to us. It is something that we felt together with other people, together with Rakvere and in Rakvere.

Daria: Mostly it was shaped by people we encounter on way and on the walks together. We had five of them. After these five walks within one space we realized that these three states resonate with us the most as the collective state of how was it and what we felt. This was mostly inspired by people being present here.

Bohdana: From the very beginning we started walking with care – how to care for people around you and also for yourself. In a way we tried to apply this methodology of care into the whole process. Both of us were doing it, but also for people who enter into this state it is present.

Tanel: To me the first two – “Care” and “Belonging/Not belonging” – are somehow mindsets I identify with. But “Stillness” is translated into Estonian as “Untouchability”. But regarding Stillness, I think of non-human, something that is not me. Care is about getting rid of the ego and concentrating on the other. Because the point of departure or location of care is the Outside. Then you only concentrate on the Outside and you let go of your personal ego. While Not-belonger is a traveller, who travels in its own world. But Stillness is the total Outside, as if you become the Outside, or what do you think?

Daria: Absolutely. It was the intention.

Bohdana: Care and Stillness are mirroring each other, but from different positions. In Care you are human trying to care and understand or to connect with the outside, while in Stillness you are non-human trying just to be.

Daria: Yes, maybe to apply this perspective of not being a human, of being outside.

Bohdana: We also wanted to somehow pinpoint a bit more non-anthropocentric position. In
Rakvere there is so much nature and even in this park (ed: next to Rakvere theatre) some projects couldn’t be made because of environmental commission. It is a very important point, they still stand on this ground, saying we should care for these animals, this wildlife. And we also tried to go into that direction.

Tanel: Do you see nature as a Stillness or Stillness as somebody who becomes nature?

Daria: I think this was the point of departure for this act. Definitely this was the most nature oriented act. And I think the idea was to try to blend it with humans who perform this act. Basically, you are becoming the soil, the tree.

Tanel: Being still.

Bohdana: Stillness derives from movement.

Tanel: But there is no movement in Stillness, you had to be in one place.

Daria: It was kind of an abstract idea that there is always something beyond that. Stillness is point of zero. But as soon as it becomes zero-dot-something, it is already movement.

Bohdana: Probably the main inspiration for it were stones. And the ecology of stones, we always perceived them as if they stand in one place all the time, for centuries. But actually there is so much happening with it, inside of it, how it was formed, how it goes all the time. When we think of it, there is so much, but still it never moves for us humans.

Tanel: In case of Inga Salurand’s installation, the material she uses, there is movement towards stone. Because there has been matter that has been turned into clay – living organisms, people with their dreams, animals, plants, everything. Everything that moves, turns into this. She uses this mass that represents disappearance, but it still goes on until it becomes a stone. But stone is like a monument for us.

Daria: Maybe somehow, but not deliberately, three of our projects manage to find certain connections and shape a coherent frame.

Tanel: I think your book can also be used in the apartment of Liis, because it is also the space of Rakvere.

Daria: Absolutely, on the micro scale.

Tanel: When I first went there, I projected a lot of my own stuff there. And maybe these projections relate to the situation there, because when you get the apartment of your ancestors, you pass through certain processes. And I’ve myself done that. But when I read about Care, I learn that I should rather touch the apartment, I should rather see, touch, feel, instead of bringing my own emotions from another place there. So, it is not about my ego, but about the other. And it is about care and paying attention on what is actually going on. Because of reading your book I dropped some things, and it helped me in this apartment. Also how this book matches with Inga’s installation, regarding Stillness. It is like monument for Stillness. Or a temple where people can gather and have existential thoughts about mortality, home, attachment.

Bohdana: When Inga was planning her work in the park, we thought when we are in the library, we are kind of on people’s way from theatre to Liis. We are in between. And we thought that Inga would be here in the park, so we’d be on people’s way from the theatre.

Tanel: But your book can be used anywhere.

Bohdana and Daria: Omnipresent!

Tanel: And also in different countries, cities. Except the walk that is related to theatre.

Bohdana: Many people say it can be used in different cities.

Daria: But I think it would diminish a bit the specifics of the space. We haven’t discussed that much, but I think if it were in another city, it would require an additional, ethnographic study. Working with locals, vulnerable groups, landscapes. Otherwise it becomes too universal and loses its value.

Bohdana: I agree. In this book you can make all these walks in Rakvere. It would still work for you. If you imagine walking Stillness in Balti jaam, Tallinn, you’ll get cognitive dissonance, rather than getting into this character. So, even using this book elsewhere, without changing anything in it, there should be framing for a specific space. Maybe not the whole city, but a park or district, where it could be used.

Daria: I'm studying urban studies. I'm familiar a bit with Estonian urban-rural tension, situation. One of the interesting things for me is that Rakvere is perceived as city while it has a lot of ruralness, for me it was like a paradox, as you can still read a book while walking around in town, and it is okay, because you can walk around the whole town in one hour. And this is quite a thing, because in Tallinn or elsewhere it is totally different in terms of time perception, space perception, the scope of the area. It can be applied here with the book, you start here and in 25 minutes you are in the other side of the city.

Tanel: But you brought a bit of yourself also here. Did you also distill it somehow? Did you manage yourself to give space to the others?

Bohdana: From the very beginning we tried to step out of our own position a bit and tried to understand the others and give space to them. But in the same time we said to ourselves that it is is very subjective what we are doing and we are not trying to pretend it is the position of someone else. Still, it all was filtered through us.

Tanel: I sensed it is empathic and gives space to the other.

Daria: I think one quite thick layer of empathy was built upon us being not local to this space, and acknowledging the influx of Ukrainians. This built quite strong foundation of listening and trying to accept and understand and be there for another. This was quite a big part and we managed to keep the space open and safe for others.

Tanel: Did you also daydream here? Well, you compared the court house with a building in Ukraine. But did you apply Ukraine here somehow, spatially, in relation with nature, etc?

Daria: I think it wasn’t actually us who applied Ukraine here. It was two people who came from Ukraine to Rakvere and once we had a walk with them. Mother (around 40) and daughter (16), from Western Ukraine, they have relatives here and last time when the mother was here she was maybe 5 years old. It was interesting as they were strongly not here at all. They were strongly not here at all. Touched the ground, every single grass, every single square reminds them home. So it was about being in the space, but actually not being. So Ukraine was coming from them, because we’ve been living here for some years, but they had just come here, it was so fresh. It was fascinating to see that Rakvere doesn’t exist, it is a transitional point, where everything reminds of home.

Tanel: It is also natural, when people travel. One thing is when you flee from something or someone. The other thing is travel.

Daria: The difference of traveling is knowing that you can come home. And here the difference is that you never know, everything is uncertain. Everything reminds you home, but you don’t know if you see your home again.

Tanel: I was discussing a bit similar issue with Inga. What makes you feel free and not connected. Seeing Inga’s installation “Kiss and Fly”, which is about the fracture zone where you leave your attachment behind, so you are free, you can fly. We found that what if the thing you are attached to doesn’t exist anymore?! It is good to leave your home when you know it is somewhere there, so you can feel free. But what if your home ceases to exist and you are forced to go. Do you feel free then? Probably not.

Bohdana: We were discussing it a lot in the context of naming the character “Not belonging”. In the description there is the word “torn-off”. And at first we thought about “uprootedness”. But it was very wrong to use it, because on one side you are torn off from your home, while you realize more than ever where your roots are. So you are not uprooted, your roots haven’t been torn off. Your body is torn off, but your mind and your realization of what is home or where you are rooted is hyper-crystallized. And that is why we didn’t use this word for “Not belonging”, because it doesn’t have this connotation of losing your roots, it is about the state your body is in.

Tanel: Where would you like to proceed with this project or how do you see what it could become?

Bohdana: I think we still like to finish the state we are right now. The archive we are gathering from the audience, all the letters we get. We’ll decide what we do with that. We received some feedback that should be shared publicly. So it doesn’t stay in folder. This is one thing we need to work on – letters. The books continue to live their own life. We left many copies here in the library. Some will remain as library books. Some can be taken forever. We also gave our license of the book to the creative commons. It means that whoever gets the book, can legally use it in any possible way – republish without asking, etc. There is soundscape that will become an album. So, there is another branch that was born on its own. All small things are coming together. Also, it would be interesting to continue developing the methodology we created...

Daria: And to try it out in different contexts and see how it works out.

Tanel: The collective walk you did in the beginning is very interesting. A collective walk can be a great form of discussion. Not sitting, but being present in places.

Daria: There is a lot of input coming during walking. This is very exploratory way of talking, you stumble upon things and this opens up certain dialogues. This is a continuous process of unfolding certain things.